Full transcript10 chapters · 9,621 words
00:00A $600K shop in a town of 10,000 turned eight figures
Alyssa Rogers: We took a $600,000 shop in a town of under 10,000 people and turned it into an eight-figure company. Not by moving to a big city, but by thinking bigger where we were.
Tyler Martin: Welcome to Profit and Grit with Tyler, where blue-collar owners and insiders spill the real story behind their hustle, building businesses that thrive through sweat and smarts. We’ll dig into their journeys from scaling chaos to growing the bottom line with lessons and grit that pay off big.
Tyler Martin: Here’s your host, the Blue Collar CFO, Tyler Martin. If you’ve ever looked at your market and thought, wow, we’re too small to build something big, this episode is going to challenge that. Today, I’m joined by Alyssa Rogers, who helped take a $600,000 HVAC shop in a town of under
Tyler Martin: 10,000 people and grow it into an eight-figure company, all without moving, without acquiring competitors, and without waiting for a bigger opportunity. We talk about what really happens between that $1 to $10 million range, hiring outside of the trades, building leaders from within, turning down a life-changing private equity offer, and what it takes to aim for a
Tyler Martin: $100 million valuation in a small market. Let’s get into it. Hey, Alyssa, welcome to the Profit and Grit Show. How are you doing today?
Alyssa Rogers: I’m great. Thanks for having me.
Tyler Martin: Yeah, thanks for being here. I always get to know guests in different ways. And the way I got to know of you and then ask you on the show was through an article that I think you either co-wrote or you wrote, and it was about your journey of growing an HVAC business.
Tyler Martin: And so I’m super excited to talk to you. I’d love to just start out learning, the audience and myself learning about you. Could you share a little bit about what you do right now? And then I’d also love to know a personal tidbit about you.
Alyssa Rogers: Yeah, so currently I am the vice president of Rogers Heating and Cooling located in South Boston, Virginia, a very small town in Southern Virginia. And I run the business alongside my husband, Joey. So you’ll probably hear about him a lot because he’s very much part of the journey of Rogers.
Alyssa Rogers: And we’ve been doing it since 2018. So it’s been quite a journey and we’re very growth minded and we’re an open book. So today, a little personal tidbit about me is I will share anything. You ask me and I will tell you. So I’m excited to talk to you today and you just ask away.
02:37Taking over Joey’s dad’s business after a bad logo redesign
Tyler Martin: That’s awesome. I’m going to get you, Alyssa. I’ll find something. No, I’m just kidding. Okay, you know where I want to start? So I’d love to just kind of from the beginning of when you acquired this business, I believe it was about $600K in revenue. Kind of take me through what led you up to you guys acquiring this business? What was your thinking?
Tyler Martin: and on that note, in terms of market, as I understand it, it’s 10,000 in the city, but the county’s 36, which by the way, is still very small. Kind of take me through what led up to acquiring it. And then I want to kind of dissect that up to the road to 10 million.
Alyssa Rogers: Yeah. So Joey, my husband, it was his dad’s business. So his dad started in 1996 as Rogers Electrical and Air Controls. And he kind of ran it for many years, just himself and a couple helpers to run the business. And so Joey grew up in it. And he likes to say that his
Alyssa Rogers: childhood was installing heat pumps and baseball. That’s what it was. And so that’s where Joey found the passion for the trades. So he graduated our local community college with his HVAC certification. And he decided instead of going back to the family business, he got into the commercial side. So he
Alyssa Rogers: worked for Commercial Train for a few years until he decided that it was time to go back and help his dad out. So it was in 2016 that he went and started learning the business side and helping his dad. At the same time, I was climbing the corporate ladder. I love education. I love the
Alyssa Rogers: corporate world. And so it was a goal of mine to be in corporate America and climb that ladder. I did not know what a heat pump was. I could care less about the trades really at that time, to be honest.
Tyler Martin: That’s awesome.
Alyssa Rogers: Yeah. And so Joey, you know, was helping his dad and I’m climbing the corporate ladder thinking I’m doing exactly what I want to be doing. And it got to a point where Joey started talking about taking over the business. And it is at that point where he had reached out to a local marketing company and got them to design a logo for him.
Alyssa Rogers: Because, like I said, it was Rogers Electrical and Air Controls. And his dad was very big into co-op funds and sold a lot of Maytag units. And so there was a big Maytag sign up on the van. And so every time Joey would go to the gas station, people would come up to him and say, hey, can you fix my refrigerator?
Alyssa Rogers: Can you fix my washer and dryer? And he’s like, I have to have people know that we work on HVAC units and we do HVAC. So he said, I’m going to change the brand. He brought home the brand to me that this marketing company had done.
Alyssa Rogers: And it was terrible. Like it was really bad. And I’m like, Joey, we can’t, this is not good. You definitely need my help in this area. Let me help you come up with a brand. And he’s like, how about you do more than that and help me grow this company?
Alyssa Rogers: and that’s when he convinced me to join Rogers Heating and Cooling to then, that was in 2017 and we took over January 1st of 2018. So it was just me and him when we took over in 2018.
Tyler Martin: And now just fast forward and then I’m going to back up a little bit. You’re around 10 million or at least at last, I think you publicly disclosed that was around you, around 10 million. Could you Kind of take me through, because this is a fascinating story to me.
Tyler Martin: One, you say that you love corporate America, because normally we don’t hear that. I know. Which is kind of funny. And then you land up in the world of small business. What does that look like as you’re going through these phases? I’d love to hear it just straight from you.
Tyler Martin: So in my mind, like you’re kind of at 2 million. That’s a little different, obviously, from the 600K. Then you go to that 5 million. And then what I see a lot of times is people get really stuck in that 5, 6 million,
Tyler Martin: they never get past it. and everybody wants to get to the eight figure 10 million, but they aren’t. Could you kind of take me through those phases and maybe things that you felt were tough in that journey that stand out?
Alyssa Rogers: Yeah. So when we started, it was pretty much just me and Joey. He had a couple of people in the field helping him, but I came from corporate America where there was structure and there were processes.
07:07Answering phones from the delivery room, then hiring a CSR
Alyssa Rogers: And so when I started, I’d get into the office first day and I say, Joey, what do I do? He says, I don’t know, figure it out. And so I had to figure it out. And I sat there and I learned the financial piece of the business.
Alyssa Rogers: I was answering phone calls. I made sure that he got to where he was supposed to go. And I just kind of figured out what it took to run the back end of the business while he took care of customers in the field.
Alyssa Rogers: So in the very beginning, it was just me. I was actually pregnant when we took over my first child. So I, the whole time we took over in January of 2018 and we had our daughter Riley in June. So that first six months I’m pregnant and trying to figure all of this out.
Alyssa Rogers: And I kept telling Joey, I’m like, Joey, you know, we have a baby coming. Like, what are we going to do once she’s here? How is this going to change? And he’s saying thing he told me on my first day, we’ll figure it out.
Alyssa Rogers: And so it was when I gave birth that my eyes really opened to what we needed to do because I had no help. I was answering phone calls on the delivery room table. As soon as I had Riley, I told Joey, hey, she’s good.
Alyssa Rogers: She’s healthy. I’m good. Go run calls. And so there was no break. I had stuff set up in our house right after she was born so I could still do payroll. I was still answering the phone. So it was that moment. I’m like, okay, I need help because I’m
Alyssa Rogers: only one person and we were growing and people knew who we were. So I started hiring and I hired a CSR dispatcher person that does all things because I did the same thing that Joey did to me when this person was hired. And I said, I don’t know what you’re going to be doing every day. I
Alyssa Rogers: just know I need help. So figure it out. And so that’s kind of the nitty gritty going from where we were to about 1.2 million. At first million is just, it’s a grind and you have to get really gritty and there’s no structure. And that’s when I found out when we hit that $1 million
Alyssa Rogers: mark, I said, we have to get some structure in place. We have to, we couldn’t keep anyone. And I mean, rightfully so, because I didn’t know what they were supposed to be doing. And then as I was figuring out what they were supposed to be doing, they were confused and
Alyssa Rogers: they were upset. And it was just a cluster, truly, those first couple years trying to figure it all out. So I’d say from that zero to $2 million mark, you’re figuring stuff out. You’re learning from your mistakes. You’re truly trying to become a leader.
Alyssa Rogers: And I didn’t even know who I was and what kind of leader I was at that point.
Tyler Martin: Right. I mean, a lot of times they’ll say zero to two million is kind of like chucking a truck. And then you get, you know, to get out of that, I think the complication, because like you said, leadership, managing people, getting clear about what they’re doing.
Tyler Martin: I mean, that’s a pretty big transformation you have to make. So how did you, on the question of how did you get past that two million and were you getting any help? Did you have a business coach or some of these services?
10:28Service Nation and getting past two million during COVID
Tyler Martin: Was someone giving you help to do that? Or were you just kind of like school of hard knocks? Like we were just figuring it out.
Alyssa Rogers: Just figuring it out from zero to two until finally I told Joey, I said, hey, I learned about this group. It’s called Service Nation. And they have an event coming up. We only have to miss one day of work. And it’s a drivable distance.
Alyssa Rogers: And so that was the first trip we went on to one of their little retreats that they had at the time in Greenville, South Carolina. It was the first time we left our daughter with my mom. And we went and we signed up for Service Nation.
Alyssa Rogers: We then realized there are people that are doing this much better than we are. They’ve done it. Why do we continue trying to reinvent the wheel when people are willing to share what they’ve done and willing to help us? So that is when we signed up for Service Nation, which was in 2020.
Alyssa Rogers: That was the last event they had before COVID. It was a couple weeks later and the world shut down for COVID, which was such a blessing for us to be able to sign up with them before that happened, because then we had a group
Alyssa Rogers: of people that we could rely on and count on to help us through that really difficult time. I don’t know if we would have done as well as we did without Service Nation during that time.
Tyler Martin: When you say that, what specifically were they doing that was helping you? Was it just, was it the group of just a whole bunch of business owners sharing information? Or was it like having a set method? I mean, like what played into that getting past that 2 million?
Alyssa Rogers: So it was the constant emails coming through about all the updates and the regulations that were being passed. and they had HR updates. So as we’re hiring people during that time, we know how to onboard them. We know the proper forms. We know when to tell people to stay home,
Alyssa Rogers: when to tell people to come, what the policies were around that. And we would not have known that without them because as a business owner and going through and being in the trenches, we’re not looking up what these changes were every single day when it came to COVID.
Tyler Martin: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So take me through. So now you’re over 2 million. What’s that next, in your mind, the next kind of bottleneck that you hit? Oftentimes, I see it’s around the 5 million mark. But what’s the next threshold where you’re like, man, we got to get through this?
Alyssa Rogers: Yeah. So during that time, we hit the 2 million. We’re going through COVID. I mean, it was terrible for a lot of people, but it was good for the trades, we all know.
13:07The Miami conference where 10 million felt small
Alyssa Rogers: And so we got really busy and we started hiring people. and next thing you know, we have more people than we’ve ever had. And we do, we hit that 3 million, about $3.5 million mark. And we hit another roadblock of, oh my gosh, like this is, I’ve
Alyssa Rogers: never run a $3.5 million business. What do we do? We need to bring in help. And that is another point of the business where I’m like, okay, I need a break. How can I get Joey to take me on a vacation, but keep it business. And so I just happened to be scrolling on Facebook and I saw
Alyssa Rogers: a promotion for the 10X Growth Conference in Miami, Florida. And so I said, okay. And it was on a weekend. That was the big seller. If it hadn’t been on a weekend, we would have never gone. So I went to Joey and I said, hey, there’s this conference. It’s a business conference and it’s
Alyssa Rogers: on a weekend. Can we go? And he’s like, sure, let’s go. And on the way to that conference, all we talked about was, you know, if we can just get this business to $10 million, we’ll be good. Like we just have to get to $10 million and then we’ll figure out what to do next,
Alyssa Rogers: but we’ll be smooth sailing, 10 million. And it’s when we got in that room with people that were so much bigger than we were. And we were surrounded by people talking about $50 million businesses, $20 million business, $100 million businesses. And it’s like, wow, we’re thinking
Alyssa Rogers: so small and there are people doing it so much better than we are. And that was just our light bold moment of we can do more than 10 million. We can grow a really big organization. And so we talked to them at that event and we said, Hey, we’re running a three and a half million dollar
Alyssa Rogers: business right now. You know, we have, we want to get much bigger than we are. Can you help us? And they said, absolutely, we can help you. And so that’s kind of what reinvigorated us at the time where we felt like we really wanted to grow, but we didn’t know how.
Alyssa Rogers: And we felt like we were in the right room with the right people at that time to get us to that next level. And they truly did help us get to where we are today.
Tyler Martin: A few questions on that. And if this is too confidential, feel free to just say so. Do they take a piece of your company? Do they take profit sharing? How does that work out?
Alyssa Rogers: So, I mean, that’s definitely an option if anyone were to want to do that. We did not do that.
Tyler Martin: Okay. So strictly advisory service is what they offered you, which is awesome. What were the biggest bottlenecks? Like, what did they do that helped you get past to the next level? Like, if you had to give a couple things that made, outside of belief, which is obviously
15:53Reverse-engineered roadmap and PPF goals for every tech
Tyler Martin: part of it, but what else is that really played into that?
Alyssa Rogers: processes and what we needed to do. So what they do is they reverse engineer your business. So there’s this long process of you submitting absolutely every process you currently have in place, all your job descriptions, what your goals are, and they kind of take it all, what
Alyssa Rogers: your market is, and they take all of the information that you provide them and then do a market study. And then they supply you with a document that shows you exactly where you need to go and what you need to do to get to your goal revenue target.
Alyssa Rogers: And so it’s a roadmap for the next 10 years of exactly what you need to do to get to where you want to be. And it kind of puts you in your place, too, because it’s so easy for you to say, oh, I want to get to 100 million or whatever it may be.
Alyssa Rogers: But your market may not support that. And so they’re going to let you know exactly what you need to do to get there and then talk to you. Is this something that you’re willing to do?
Tyler Martin: Right. Now, one thing I want to just when we talk about revenue, obviously, like revenue is sexy, like 10 million sexy, 100 million sexy. But sometimes we like gloss over the net profit part of it. How much do either they or you guys like really focus around, hey, revenue is great, but we want to be at 10, 15, 20 percent.
Tyler Martin: How much does that play into your impact of what you guys are thinking?
Alyssa Rogers: They break all of that down too.
Tyler Martin: Really? Okay.
Alyssa Rogers: What you need to hit. And so what comes after that, they supply the plan to you, but then you have a whole group of people. It’s kind of like your executive team through them that know your numbers inside and out. You are supplying all of your information every month to them so they can stay up to date on what’s going on and you can pivot really quickly.
Alyssa Rogers: So they’re holding you accountable every week on what your goals are and where you’re currently at to make sure that you hit them and you’re profitable doing it.
Tyler Martin: Wow. Now, you know, some of the, how do they help with this or how did you overcome these things? A lot of times, you know, technician retention is a big deal or even cash flow, even sometimes, are you all residential or do you do any commercial?
Tyler Martin: Okay. So you probably are mostly COD, I’m thinking.
Alyssa Rogers: Yes.
Tyler Martin: How have you overcome things like that in terms of like technician retention and maybe even cash flow, although COD eliminates that a little bit?
Alyssa Rogers: I mean, I don’t think we’ve ever overcome it, to be honest with you.
Tyler Martin: Love it. Love it.
Alyssa Rogers: That’s still something that we struggle with today. But, you know, it’s truly what they helped with, too, is, you know, what is your culture? Putting the processes and systems in place to have a good culture and really know what people’s goals are. So I think one of the biggest takeaways for me as a leader at that time was I can talk about my goals all the time.
Alyssa Rogers: I can talk about the vision of the organization and where we want to go. But do I know that of all of our team? And so they really put a plan in place for us to sit down with every team member and find out what are your personal, professional and financial goals for the next one, two and three years.
Alyssa Rogers: and that was really a huge moment for us because it really let us know who was aligned, who wasn’t, what they wanted to do with their life and how to help them get there. And so it’s when we started implementing those things and really cheering each other on and posting them up
Alyssa Rogers: so everyone knows what they are and celebrating everyone when they hit them was a huge moment for us and that’s something that we’ve taken on with us this entire time. I have a meeting tomorrow to go over what the PPF goals are for our team and to make sure that we go into this new year and we can celebrate when they reach their goals and I can help them get there.
Tyler Martin: What are PPF goals?
Alyssa Rogers: So that’s personal, professional and financial goals.
Tyler Martin: Got it. Okay, very cool. And on that note, are you guys the type of shop where you have, you can call in SPFs or incentive programs that you tie into certain metrics on the technician level or profit sharing or phantom stock or anything? What are you guys’ beliefs around
Alyssa Rogers: that type of compensation? We’ve tried lots of different plans over time. We’ve had different KPI plans, commission structures. And so we’re still trying to figure that out. It’s not perfect. We do have KPIs in place and we do like to kind of measure what
Alyssa Rogers: they’re doing. But like you said, with the retention of technicians and the cash flow and all that comes with growth, it’s hard to manage that all of the time and make sure that it’s consistent with the growth. So I think it’s always been a work in progress, but we’re always trying to find
Alyssa Rogers: ways to incentivize our team and to make sure that they know what’s best for the company too,
20:50Why Matt the GM handles the tough conversations
Tyler Martin: so they can win alongside it. Okay. And then one thing I’ll see when we get around that 10 million plus level is a lot of times owners will start thinking about, is this a time to bring in a GM? It gets me from not being so in the business. And so obviously a small leadership team starts
Tyler Martin: to play into that. Where are you guys in that journey? And have you thought about maybe like
Alyssa Rogers: a GM type? Would that make sense at some point or what are your thoughts? So we do have one. Okay. Amazing. Matt has been with all for a couple of years now and has really helped us lead the team because what I found is full transparency. I am not the best manager.
Alyssa Rogers: Sure. And it’s very hard to, you know, do everything that we do and run the business and have the emotional side of it and then, you know, manage people and they deserve a great leader. They deserve someone that’s there for them every single day. And so Matt has really
Alyssa Rogers: stepped in and been that for our team. And he’s kind of that guy that he can be really hard on you, but he cares. And people value that so much. And so we’re really lucky to have him really overseeing the entire operation. And it allows me and Joey to really at this moment, you know,
Alyssa Rogers: fight the fires and be where we need to be. So it’s not like me and Joey are out vacationing everywhere. We’re still here every day, but we’re focused on what we need to be focused on to grow the business while Matt is really taking care of the day-to-day here.
Tyler Martin: Yeah, that’s very cool. And it is a lot of self-awareness on your part. Sometimes, you know, we aren’t great managers and that doesn’t mean we can’t become one, but sometimes we go, hey, it doesn’t make sense for me to become one maybe because that’s not the role I want or whatever.
Tyler Martin: So I think that’s cool that you have that self-awareness and probably having a Matt type role. And this is what I see a lot with GMs is it kind of deflects a little bit too, because he can do, I don’t want to say the tough stuff, but he can deal with some of that stuff that can really honestly suck us in if it’s people not showing up or not, you know what I mean?
Tyler Martin: I mean, it could just be a tax that’s not the best time of owner time.
Alyssa Rogers: It’s so true. And, you know, I want to celebrate. And I like to be the hoorah, let’s have a great time kind of person. And so it’s really hard when I have to have a really tough conversation with a team member and then go and celebrate something, you know?
Alyssa Rogers: So at least now I can focus on the wins and it doesn’t, you know, the emotional side is not as prominent for me.
Tyler Martin: Yeah. It’s hard to say, hey, you’re going to get let go if you don’t do this and the next day celebrate something good. I get it. I’ve been there. Okay. Hey, one question before we move on to the next thing. So if I understand it, you guys are looking at 100 million, like that’s kind of your North
Tyler Martin: star. Going back to that methodology of like building, you know, looking at the area, building the infrastructure to be able to do that. I mean, what would that look like? What are you doing today that kind of sets you up for someday getting to 100 million?
Tyler Martin: Are you doing anything consciously?
Alyssa Rogers: Yeah. So, I mean, we have that plan, of course.
24:02Greenfielding Lynchburg and five branches to reach 100M
Alyssa Rogers: And so we know what we need to do. And in our market, like we’ve said, as a small market, for us to get to that $100 million mark, we have to open up additional locations. So we opened our Lynchburg branch a little over a year ago.
Alyssa Rogers: And what’s really cool about that is you hear a lot about people acquiring other businesses. And, you know, we decided we weren’t going to do that. We were going to greenfield the location. Because we have really great talent within our organization. And because we know everyone’s goals and what they want to achieve in life, it just so happens
Alyssa Rogers: we have a group of people on our team that have the desire to run a location one day. So what we did is we went to them and we said, hey, like we want to open additional locations. Who wants to do this? And it was Brandon Frost who opened our Lynchburg branch.
Alyssa Rogers: And it was a phone call one night. Joey said, okay, I’m ready to do this. Are you ready to do this? And it was about a month. They talked about it. They scouted the location. And Brandon was living in Lynchburg, opening that branch.
Alyssa Rogers: And he’s been doing a phenomenal job. We have a great group there. And he’s growing it. And it’s been really awesome to watch because he started with us as a technician. And he wanted to learn and he wanted to grow. And he really was a sponge during his time here.
Alyssa Rogers: And now he’s running our first branch location and he’s kind of going to help out and be a guide for the person that’s going to open our third location this year. So it’s going to be a huge watch.
Tyler Martin: How many locations have you done the numbers to the point that how many locations you’d need to be able to actually hit that North Star of 100 million?
Alyssa Rogers: Yeah, so we’re looking, it’ll probably be five locations. Okay. So the third will be this year, and we’re excited to announce that very soon. And then we’ll see how that goes. Sure, sure. And then announce the fourth and fifth. But we do think that it’ll be five.
Alyssa Rogers: We’re excited about that. And then, you know, we just try to be very intentional. And you asked, you know, how are you doing this? And you have this vision of 100 million, and it really is taking it one day at a time. And I am definitely the integrator in the relationship.
Alyssa Rogers: So I am focused on today and this week. And Joey, he’s already in 2027. So I’m always having to catch up to him because he’s already in next year. And I just try to listen to him and what he’s wanting to see so I can fulfill it this year
Alyssa Rogers: so he can fulfill that vision in the future.
Tyler Martin: Do you find you have to dial him back sometimes?
Alyssa Rogers: All the time. All the time. I mean, he’s definitely the visionary. And so, you know, in his mind, he’s already there. He’s, you know, he comes in, I always tell people he’s like a tornado. And so he’ll come in and he’ll say, we need to do this, we need to do this. And then he leaves. And we have to like pick up all the pieces and figure and put them all together. And like, how can we make all of this happen?
Alyssa Rogers: And so I get a lot of my ideas from him. People look at me and come to me and say, how did you do this? Or how are you so creative in this?
27:28Managing a visionary husband by writing every idea down
Alyssa Rogers: And a lot of times I have to tell them, like, it’s me listening to Joey. Joey is very creative and I just kind of take what he says and I make it happen.
Tyler Martin: How do you, and you kind of answered this, but I do want to at least ask it. How do you manage that though? Because, you know, that’s the classic entrepreneur, entrepreneurial type thing. It can be a pro or a con. A lot of times when our brains are like going, you know, 10 different directions, like you said, you’re picking up the pieces.
Tyler Martin: Everyone’s confused. They’re getting mixed messages. And it kind of can stifle growth at times because of that. We get hot on one thing and the next day we’re hot on another thing. How do you deal with that in the bigger picture of things so you don’t lose focus?
Alyssa Rogers: So what I’ve done, I am a huge journaler. I write a lot of stuff down. I’m very big on timing is everything. and so I have kept a list of all of his ideas for the last at least five years and he’ll be
Alyssa Rogers: riding down the road or he’ll like shout out a creative thing or idea and I write it down and I put it in my notes and my phone if we’re out and I have this document that has all of these things and so when I’m planning the year ahead I just go through that I’m like okay is it the right time to
Alyssa Rogers: do this because some of the things are very large and probably something we can’t do at our size right now, but we definitely will be able to in the future. So in the beginning, the early days, he would involve a lot of people. It was never, you know, he would come in sometimes, say,
Alyssa Rogers: I have this great idea and stop everyone. And we’d go into a conference room, we’d have a whiteboard session until I had to tell him, you can’t do that anymore. Like we are working in here and I am trying to bring some structure to our environment. So you can’t just come in and grab us. So in the
Alyssa Rogers: early days, it was pretty disorganized, but now it’s definitely more organized and he just, you know, talks about things and I write them down. And then when it’s time to share with everyone, we’ll do it together. But yeah, I have a very large document with things that we want to do
Tyler Martin: in the future. Man, if you ever needed it, you have a career in EOS as an integrator because you handled that like a master.
Alyssa Rogers: Yeah. And I mean, a lot of times, you know, in the early days too, I mean, working with your spouse, you know, I give it to him straight and sometimes a little too hard. And what I learned is he would come to me with ideas.
Alyssa Rogers: I’d be like, you’re crazy. We can’t do this. This is too big. And then he’d get upset because he thought I wasn’t thinking big enough. And he’d walk out and he’s like, fine, I’ll find someone else to do it. And, you know, it’s just, you know, that back and forth until I realized really quickly,
Alyssa Rogers: like, okay, let me just write this down. Say, you know what? That’s a great idea. Love it. I’ll let you know my progress on it or whatever. And I write it down. And by that time he’s already moved on to something else. I’ll have it.
Tyler Martin: You just need to buy 48 hours basically.
Alyssa Rogers: Yeah.
Tyler Martin: That’s awesome. That’s cool. That’s good. And that does add another layer of complexity or it can, is being husband and wife is not something to gloss over because you can take that home with you if you’re not careful or you’re not conscious of it.
Tyler Martin: And so that is another layer.
Alyssa Rogers: Yeah, for sure. And when we said that we were going to do this together, people looked at us like we were crazy. They’re like, why would you do that? Have you lost your mind? And although it’s been phenomenal, I wouldn’t have it any other way.
Alyssa Rogers: That does not mean it doesn’t come with its challenges and many disagreements and many hard times separating the two. And we tell people we don’t really separate it. You know, there’s a time and place for it all, but we don’t really separate business
Alyssa Rogers: and personal. We don’t get home and say, oh, this is our time to talk about business. And now we have to stop. Like if something’s going on, we don’t see each other that much anymore during the day because he’s doing his thing, I’m doing mine.
Alyssa Rogers: So if we have to come together at the end of the day and talk about it, even if it’s eight o’clock at night, that’s what we do. But yeah, we definitely had our share of disagreements, but at the end of the day, we know exactly what the vision is and where we’re going.
Alyssa Rogers: And so we have to stay on the same page. The second we’re not on the same page is the second all of this falls apart. So we’re very aware of that.
Tyler Martin: Yeah, that’s cool. Thanks. You are really, I appreciate how open and transparent you are. Because sometimes, you know, sometimes we tend to gloss over things and I do hear, you know, hey, sometimes it’s not all roses. I mean, things, you know. It isn’t. And how important is it?
Alyssa Rogers: Let me tell you, we actually, we had this fun story here. We, in the early days, you know, we were only trying to get to 10 million and we could definitely do that. And, you know, where we are currently without additional branches. So we got our dream home.
Alyssa Rogers: Like it was our dream home. It had all the amenities. We were so excited to have it. And then realized very quickly that we wanted to grow a larger business and we were never home. So we were paying all this money for this nice house, never spending time there.
Alyssa Rogers: So our office had an apartment upstairs. We renovated it, moved into it, and that’s where we live now. And so we are here all the time. We’re all in on the business. But the worst part of it is when we are having disagreements.
Alyssa Rogers: And I’m like, oh my gosh, I just have to get away from him for a second. And there really isn’t. Or I’ll say, I’m not going to talk to him at all today. And then I come down to my desk and I’m like, dang it.
Alyssa Rogers: Like something’s on my desk that I have to talk to him about. So there really isn’t much downtime when things aren’t going well between us. But it does make us, it doesn’t allow us to spend a lot of time, you know, giving each other the silent treatment or whatever we have to be.
Tyler Martin: You got to deal with that.
Alyssa Rogers: Yes.
Tyler Martin: Okay, I got two topics. I want to spend just a few minutes on each. I wanted to talk about, you’ve mentioned hiring people that aren’t necessarily part of the HVAC industry or even HVAC experience. And I wanted to just talk about what your thought process is on that.
Tyler Martin: It sounds like you’ve had good experiences from it. It’s kind of a little bit against the grain. You know, our community tends to be, you’re looking for people that have been in the industry. So it’s a little bit of against grain. And so I thought it’d be a fun conversation just to hear your take on it.
Alyssa Rogers: Yeah, I’m looking for great people. Like, I’m truly looking for great people. And I’m looking for great people all the time, everywhere I go. It’s not, you know, and people can get so hung up on coming from corporate America and seeing job descriptions and the requirements to have a certain position.
Alyssa Rogers: You know, people get so hung up on what the requirements and responsibilities or qualifications for a position are. They could meet, there could be 10 requirements that they have to fulfill and they can meet all of them, but one and they won’t apply.
Alyssa Rogers: It’s like absurd to me because like, I just need good people. If I can teach you skill, but I can’t teach you how to be a good person. And so it’s really important for me to provide opportunities to people they didn’t know existed.
Alyssa Rogers: I mean, when I graduated college, I said I was never coming back to this area. This is where I grew up. And my parents made me move back because I didn’t have a job. I started applying to jobs everywhere outside of here and landed what I considered at that
Alyssa Rogers: time my dream job here, right in this small town. and I understood very quickly that these small towns and rural communities just need really good people and they need talented people and there are so many opportunities for people to grow here because when you think of getting a job and you want to go to this big city,
Alyssa Rogers: the talent pool, I mean, there are a ton of people you’re going up against for a position and so in these smaller towns, we’re just looking for like one good person and one qualified person for things. So I just want people to know that there are
Alyssa Rogers: so many opportunities in the trades to really make a lot of money to achieve your goals and to do something really great. And the coolest part about the trades to me is, and we tell all of our team this when they come on board, I didn’t know what a heat pump was, you know, when I started
Alyssa Rogers: here, they don’t have to know what it is. We’ll teach them that. But once they learn this skill, You can literally go anywhere in the United States and get a job. And so it’s just such a cool skill to have. And I think there’s just so much potential for people in the trades right now.
Alyssa Rogers: I just, I want to take them under my wing and say like, come on, like, let me help you grow and become really great.
Tyler Martin: Yeah. What’s the biggest obstacle when you do hire someone outside of the industry? What stands in the way there? What do you, when it doesn’t work, what are the things that kind of pop up?
Alyssa Rogers: The trades are tough. You know, and for anyone thinking that they’re going to come in and they have this pie job and it’s no stress, like they don’t last year long. And I’m very transparent about that in my interviews and when people come on board.
Alyssa Rogers: I mean, the onboarding process is really important to us. And so any new team member that comes on board, they’re in a three week onboarding process that goes over the soft skills, the technical skills, if they’re in a technical position. And they really learn the organization and the trades.
Alyssa Rogers: And in that few weeks, you get to know who they are and kind of if they’re going to fit or not. But we’re very transparent in that. And I mean, this is a demand business. When it is, you have to work in the times that not a lot of people want to work.
Alyssa Rogers: I mean, in the heat of the summer, when you’re on Facebook, seeing everyone at their beach house or on the beach and doing fun things. And, you know, your technicians are seeing that as they’re in an attic or a crawl space and it’s 100 degrees outside.
Alyssa Rogers: And so it’s very tough environments that we have to be in. And so you have to have people that truly care about people and are willing to fight through those really tough times.
Tyler Martin: Yeah, that’s good stuff. Last topic I wanted to just cover here. So, you know, the dream for a lot of us is when we’re building our trades business is that someday private equity or a buyer will approach us and make an offer to us.
37:59Turning down the life-changing private equity offer
Tyler Martin: And as I understand you, that did happen to you and you guys decided, hey, it’s just really private equity and it really wasn’t time yet. Can you kind of walk me through that? Like, what was your guys’ decision in that to not do that?
Tyler Martin: And what were the reasons and kind of what are your future aspirations beyond 100 million?
Alyssa Rogers: So we did. We had an offer in front of us. It was a little, it was July of 2024 is when that offer was brought to us. Great offer, life-changing offer. And we went through that whole process of having the LOI in front of us.
Alyssa Rogers: And ultimately, you know, I like to tell people, and this is not downing myself whatsoever, but at the end of the day, Joey has a passion for the trades. He loves the trades. Like this is his vision. I am the integrator and I’m going to make it happen and I believe in it, but I wanted this
Alyssa Rogers: to be his decision. And so when we were going through this process and having these conversations, we’re going through what would our life look like? What are we going to do? What does this mean for us because it wasn’t something that we went sought out.
Alyssa Rogers: They came to us. We, you know, entertained it for that time and said, okay, like, let’s see what we can do. And it’s at that moment of those talks of what are we going to do next? Or what does our future look like?
Alyssa Rogers: And then having the LOI in front of us and thinking, is this what we really want? And I, I didn’t know what he was going to do, but it’s at that moment that he said, you know what, I can’t do it. I got down to the wire. He’s like, I cannot do it because
Alyssa Rogers: I’m selling myself short and I want to get to a hundred million dollars. And this is not going to help me do that. I am going to make this happen. And he’s like, I’m going to fail the team that I’ve told. This is our vision. I mean, it’s on our vision board. We’re going to get to
Alyssa Rogers: a hundred million and I just can’t do it. And I have to be here for our team. And it’s just not our time. That doesn’t mean that we won’t do it in the future. Who knows? But it’s not on our radar right now because we truly have this vision of getting to 100 million and we’re only a tenth of
Alyssa Rogers: the way there. So we’ve got some time to get to that. Wow. It’s hard not to get caught up into
Tyler Martin: the what if though, like suddenly a big check, you know, big wire hits your account and you get this big lump of money. There had to be a period of time though, as you’re making that decision where You’re kind of fantasizing about that big old lump of money coming in.
Alyssa Rogers: It’s like the conversations you have when it’s a big lottery and you’ve got the lottery ticket and you’re talking with your family like, we won. What are we going to do? What’s the first thing you’re going to buy or the first thing you’re going to do?
Alyssa Rogers: And so, of course, you’re thinking that and you’re thinking, okay, what are we going to do with this? And what this number, like, what does it truly mean for us? And we’re young. I mean, we’re in our mid-30s. And so is this going to last?
Alyssa Rogers: Is this going to sustain us for our daughter in the future? Not just us, but for her. And so, yeah, we definitely had those conversations. But at the end of the day, you know, when we make decisions like that, it’s, you know, you have those fun conversations leading up to it.
Alyssa Rogers: The decision is made not to do it. So that is gone. And it’s kind of like when you look at your lottery ticket, you didn’t win. It’s like you, you just get up and you go to work and you continue doing what you were
Alyssa Rogers: doing before that. so was no there’s not been any looking back maybe a couple times when i’m frustrated i’ll look at him although you can’t hide you can’t hide from him too much so you only can probably say that so much and then you gotta quite pull back on that so we have done that but um that’s just in you know
Alyssa Rogers: times that are tough but you know at the end of the day we know what we want to do and we’re not
Tyler Martin: going to stop until we get there. Yeah. Plus, I’m sure there’s a certain level of satisfaction. I know I felt this when someone wants to buy your business, like there’s just a feeling of validation
Alyssa Rogers: there for a while that, man, I’m really creating some value here. Yeah. And, you know, we were not preparing our business for that. And so when you’re looking at that, you really learn the process that they go through and what they’re looking for. It really did help us dial in the business too,
Alyssa Rogers: because when you’re not preparing for something like that, you’re probably not making the best financial decisions per se because you’re not preparing for a sale. And so it was that moment that we said, you know what? We really need to dial in on the financial piece of our business
Alyssa Rogers: and the processes that we’re putting in place because if we are ready for that one day, we want to get the best value that we can. And so we also knew in that moment that we probably didn’t get the best, the value that we could have if we would have been trying for that.
Alyssa Rogers: And so now we’re trying to set ourself up. So if anything like that were to happen again or we decided to do something like that, we’re ready and we get the best valuation.
Tyler Martin: A couple just last questions since you brought up the financial piece. Do you guys have targets of where you want to be like in terms of GP and that operating income in terms of percentages? What are you guys trying to target in those two areas generally?
Alyssa Rogers: Yeah, so we’re really focused on net right now. And we really want that to be 10%. That’s really important to us. And I know people will say it needs to be 13, 20, or whatever. But our goal is 10% because we are growing.
Alyssa Rogers: And we understand that with multiple locations and greenfielding the way we do, it’s not, we’re not going to have a very high net. You’re investing in the business basically,
Tyler Martin: and that’s affecting your bottom line. What about GP? Do you guys, to gross profit, do you tend to look at any certain, like, is it 50, 45? What are you guys comfortable with?
Alyssa Rogers: We’d like to be between 30 and 40. Okay. So I know the industry standard from the research that I’ve done is, you know, 30 on the lower side. We liked that sweet spot for us is about 40. Perfect would be 50, but it fluctuates month over month, but 40% of their sweet spot. Yeah. That’s what I typically
Tyler Martin: hear too. One thing I’ll see that tells me there might be a problem is when you’re looking at like five years worth of financials or even three, and you’re seeing that GP go down, then I’m like, okay, we might have a problem here because you’re probably taking on more. Maybe you’re paying your
Tyler Martin: employees more. Maybe your materials are going up, but you’re not really adjusting your pricing is usually what I hear. But 40 is a common one, 40 plus if possible even. That’s good stuff. And then very last one, I promise. I know I keep saying that. What about CRMs? I imagine you’re
Tyler Martin: using like a Service Titan environment? We’re on Service Titan. We’ve been with them since 2021,
Alyssa Rogers: and we really try to utilize that program to its full potential as much as possible because of the multiple branches who want to operate off of that.
Tyler Martin: Yeah, that’s why I kind of figured it had to be service-tightened with multiple locations. It’s probably the only one that can really handle it well. Very cool. Well, let me just, as we wrap up here, I want to share a few things. So you have a podcast called
Tyler Martin: The Hello, Hello Podcast. Can you share a little bit about that in case people want to listen to it?
Alyssa Rogers: Sure. So I started the podcast a few years ago. Another thing that I went to Joey, I said, I want to start a podcast. He said, great, make it Rogers, do whatever you want. And I started it. It’s a community-based podcast. So anyone that’s interested in marketing
Alyssa Rogers: and their environment or their market, let me know because I’m happy to always discuss how to do that. I go around to local businesses and leaders and talk to them about their business and the journey that got them to where they are. So I’ve kind of formed our own chamber of commerce
Alyssa Rogers: within Rogers. and it’s been really great. I’d say it’s one of our biggest marketing tools at Rogers.
Tyler Martin: Yeah. What a great thing for the community too, because I imagine you just love the stories. Everybody has a story in terms of their own business and it like blows your mind.
Alyssa Rogers: It does. And I just like, I know when we talked, you know, you said you just love hearing people’s stories and, you know, loved getting to know people. And I feel the same way. Every time I leave a business after an interview, I’m like, wow, they’re really phenomenal.
Alyssa Rogers: and what they’re doing is just so amazing. And I just feel honored to be able to showcase them every week.
Tyler Martin: Yeah, and you’re one of those stories. I mean, I was just hearing your story, you and Joey. I mean, it’s like such a cool story. Just sharing a couple other of your links, callrogers.com is your business site. I know you’re really active, I believe on Instagram.
Tyler Martin: It’s hello, hello, it’s Alyssa. I’ll put that, I’ll put all these links in the show notes. And then I know where we connected was on Facebook, Your handle is amgavitt, G-A-V-I-T-T. If people wanted to reach out to you about the show, is Facebook probably the best spot or where?
Alyssa Rogers: Yeah, Facebook, Instagram, anywhere you can find me. I do respond to every message.
Tyler Martin: You really do. You did with me, so I’m super appreciative. Well, thanks, Alyssa. I wish you guys the best of luck. Can’t wait to maybe see on your journey again as you get maybe to the midpoint of 100 million. That’d be a fun discussion.
Tyler Martin: And I just can’t thank you enough and wish you and Joey the best of luck.
Alyssa Rogers: Thank you so much.
Tyler Martin: My biggest takeaway from Melissa is this. Growth isn’t limited by geography. It’s limited by leadership. She didn’t grow Rogers Heating and Cooling by chasing shiny tactics. She built structure after chaos. She hired for character over experience, invested in coaching when they hit walls,
Tyler Martin: and had the discipline to say no to a big check because it didn’t align with the long-term vision. And here’s the part I care about most as a numbers person. Growth only works if the financial foundation can support it. Clean closes, clear targets, forecasting that actually maps to where you want to go.
Tyler Martin: If you’re pushing towards eight figures or you’re trying to build something durable enough to sell one day, You need more than revenue goals. You need clarity on margins, cash flow, and what the next phase actually requires. If you’d like a second set of eyes on your numbers, your growth plan, or your path to scale, you can book a no-pressure intro call at cfointrocall.com.
Tyler Martin: That’s cfointrocall.com. As always, thanks for listening. I will catch you on the next episode.
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Tyler Martin works with owners on the numbers behind these stories: HVAC accountant and fractional CFO for HVAC contractors. For where your business sits right now, read the $3M to $15M scaling breakdown.
