Full transcript9 chapters · 8,928 words
00:00Naming the company NCB after his two late brothers
Brandon Saiz: I got fired at 19, discharged from the army, and launched my own company in the middle of COVID with nothing but my own money. I always stayed the course.
Tyler Martin: Welcome to Profit and Grit with Tyler, where blue-collar owners and insiders spill the real story behind their hustle, building businesses that thrive through sweat and smarts. We’ll dig into their journeys from scaling chaos to growing the bottom line with lessons and grit that pay off big.
Tyler Martin: Here’s your host, the Blue Collar CFO, Tyler Martin.
Brandon Saiz: Getting fired at 19 isn’t usually the start of a good success story. But for Brandon Says, it was the beginning of building a $3 million HVAC business from scratch after setbacks, bad decisions, and learning everything the hard way. But Brandon’s not done. In this episode, we break down the costly mistakes, the hard lessons,
Brandon Saiz: and what it actually takes to grow a home service business. If there’s a guy I’m betting on, it’s Brandon. After talking with him, he’s full of fire and I know he’ll get to the next level. I have no doubt. He, to his own admission,
Brandon Saiz: he goes through a wall to get things done. This is an exciting episode. I think you’ll enjoy it. Hey, Brandon, welcome to the Profit and Grit Show. How are you doing today?
Tyler Martin: Morning, I’m doing amazing. How are you?
Brandon Saiz: Doing great, man. I’m excited to have you on. I wanna learn about you a little bit to start out here. Could you tell us what you do professionally?
Tyler Martin: Actually, I have an HVAC and plumbing business, and then we also do drains. So that’s the main thing right there.
Brandon Saiz: Very cool. And where are you located? What state?
Tyler Martin: Albuquerque, New Mexico.
Brandon Saiz: Right on. Okay. And then what about the tidbits, something about you personally? Anything you could share with us?
Tyler Martin: Personally, something that most people know is I’m really into kickboxing and jujitsu. I just got a purple belt two months ago. So if anyone knows what that means, purple belt is pretty solid.
Brandon Saiz: Wow. That’s awesome. Good job, man. What’s after purple? Brown? After purple is brown. Yeah, brown and then black. Okay, very cool. Wow, you’re right up near the top of the chain. Okay, cool.
Tyler Martin: So, hey, where I wanted to start out, just in terms of learning about you a little bit. So, your company, NCB, and I believe it’s NCB Mechanical. Talk to me a little bit how you came up with that name, because I think it’s pretty cool
Tyler Martin: the way you’ve done it.
Brandon Saiz: Yeah, so originally the name was the name that my dad did when he first opened everything up. It was NC and B Mechanical. And then when I finally started to get rolling, I just put it to NCB, the way I had to file it with the state.
Brandon Saiz: And then the NCB stands for myself and then my two older brothers. Both, unfortunately, passed away. So I figured once I started on this journey, I needed to make sure that, you know, I carried them with me. So that’s where the name comes from.
Tyler Martin: That’s so cool. Do you run your business in any way when you’re thinking about, because obviously legacy and family is important to you. Does that affect the way you run the business in any way?
Brandon Saiz: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. you know, to a degree, I feel like I have to hold myself to a very high standard. You know, I want to make sure the people, not only them, but you know, the people that are around me are constantly, they’re proud to be working with me and proud of what we’re doing. And knowing that,
Brandon Saiz: you know, it could mean more than just a regular business. You know, we’re on a path to be great. And I want to be on a path to be the biggest and best in New Mexico. So, so yeah, that name requires me to even hold myself to an even higher standard, I believe, because I want to be the best.
Tyler Martin: Yeah, that’s such a cool story, man. It’s just named after your family, especially family that’s no longer with us. It’s just a pretty cool way to do it.
Brandon Saiz: Yeah, I mean, I was 18 when my first brother passed away, and then I was 26 when my oldest one passed away. So the first one was two days after I graduated high school, and then the second one was on July 4th of 2020.
Brandon Saiz: So you already have the pandemic, and you have all this craziness already going on, and then that happens on July 4th. So both were pretty impactful times in my life, I guess, as well.
Tyler Martin: Yeah. I lost a sister about 25 years ago. So it was a while ago, but it was when we were a lot younger. And man, it’s a tough period of life when that happens.
Brandon Saiz: Yeah.
04:03Fired at 19 for leaving the warehouse to ride along
Brandon Saiz: So no, it was tough, but it still is. Yeah. While you take it one day at a time and you push yourself, whether that’s business or what you’re doing in your day to day, you make it happen. Yeah.
Tyler Martin: So before we get to the launch of your business, you kind of had some rough knocks. Like you’ve had some things that have hit you hard. Yeah. I want to talk about some of those things. So maybe you could like, one was getting fired at 19.
Tyler Martin: Another was, hey, potentially doing HVAC in the army. Can we kind of talk through some of those challenges that kind of made you who you are in terms of hitting some obstacles?
Brandon Saiz: Yeah. The younger years where there was a lot of hurdles, you know, especially as a young kid, you’re kind of getting beat up without even realizing it. thank God I was always extremely persistent and I never kind of shied away from it. So when I was 19, I got let go from a company in Rio Rancho, which is right here. It’s the same
Brandon Saiz: thing as Albuquerque, but I had gotten let go. They had me in the warehouse. I just had to, they wanted me to sweep stuff and run parts. I was definitely very entry level. And what happened was, is there was one day and I kept telling them, Hey, I want to get in the field. I want
Brandon Saiz: to learn more. I actually want to feel like I’m doing something productive. Well, they told me to clean up the shop and then I was going to go run some parts. And that day I said, I’m not doing it anymore. So I asked one of the technicians, I said, Hey, do you need help? And he’s like,
Brandon Saiz: yeah, you can come with me. And I just left with him. And then they called me about, about an hour later and they said, Hey, where are you at? You’re supposed to be here. And I said, I came with a, you know, so-and-so I’m working in the field. And they said, well,
Brandon Saiz: bring your ship back and you’re done. The reason why that one was a big deal is because I had always known that I wanted to do HVAC and that this is what I was trying to do since I was a young kid. There was no confusion. I wasn’t a bad employee or worker. I always showed up early.
Brandon Saiz: I always tried to make it happen. And that one really hurt because like I said, it was my first time with a company that I felt like just really didn’t give me a chance or an opportunity. so then i tried to get into the army and i was already enlisted so i had my date for basic
Brandon Saiz: training as well as the ait school is what it was called and they called me one week before i was
06:20The army enlistment that fell apart a week before basic
Brandon Saiz: supposed to go to basic training at fort jackson and they said it was a private investigator is what it was and he called me and he said hey this is on your record did you know about it and i’m And like, I mean, I didn’t know about it, but me being 19 and naive or ignorant, when they tell me that a possession charge is going to come off of my record, you believe it.
Brandon Saiz: Sure. So, yeah. So it’s not something I really disclosed. And that sucked because that was always my dream to go into the army and, you know, do that thing. But not only that, after that, this other company, it was a small little company, but they were a good company.
Brandon Saiz: And I did all their changeovers for them. and part of just being young and getting started, I didn’t care what I had to do. This company, we basically worked for a real estate firm is what it was, kind of. And we went into the house and replaced water heaters,
Brandon Saiz: did swamp cooler changeover. I don’t know if you’re familiar with what a swamp cooler is. We have those that are popular here. We just did random things like doors and paint and stuff like that. And I took an Altima, a Nissan Altima, and a little stackable little giant ladder,
Brandon Saiz: and I did all the changeovers for them and I paid for my own gas. So it’s just that those young days where I didn’t care what it took or what I had to do. You know, I was always willing to make that, make that happen. Yeah. And all of that was in the span of that 18 to about 21 age. So in three
Brandon Saiz: years, uh, there was a lot of, a lot of ups and downs, I guess you could call it. So. Yeah. Good
Tyler Martin: on you for like, keep fighting through it now in, in, in the middle of COVID that’s where you kind to get the idea, hey, I’m going to start my own business. What got you to the point where, hey, I’m going to start my own business, especially in the middle of COVID. And I believe you funded
Tyler Martin: the whole thing. So kind of take me through what was going through you. And all the craziness that
Brandon Saiz: that brought. Yeah. Take me through that. Yeah. Yeah. So what pushed me to actually open it was again, as my oldest brother passed away. So as a young kid, I, again, at the time I was 26, I was like, you know what? I just want to do something. I want to do something more. I felt
Brandon Saiz: like it was my responsibility to carry that name. That is what initially kind of got me going. On top of that, you know, I was at a company and it was a good company, but it’s just like anything at a certain point, you start to see the ceiling and, you know, most or some that get that kind
Brandon Saiz: of motivation to open up their own business, uh, they look past the ceiling and they want more than that. So that is, that’s what started to push me. And you kind of study the game of a business or HVAC, whatever you want to call it. And you believe that you bring something to the table
Brandon Saiz: that, that, you know, you can, you can make better, I guess. Yeah. So those are the things that pushed me. And to answer your other question, I did fund the whole thing. I funded the whole thing. I bought the trucks, I bought the marketing and the guy that helped me get it going. I paid
Brandon Saiz: him out of my own personal account. So I didn’t even pay him out of the business account yet. Hey, I didn’t even know how to do that. I didn’t even know it was a thing. I mean, you know, payroll as a, as a word, but you don’t know what payroll is or how to set it up.
Brandon Saiz: So I was paying him, I was paying him out of my own personal bank account for the first five months. Wow. Wow. And I paid him a flat rate too. I just paid him X amount per week.
Tyler Martin: So you just like literally school, school hard knocks here, like everything. Um, you just kind of blow through everything. It’s kind of, you’re like a, you’re a bulldog when it comes to figuring
Brandon Saiz: things out. Yeah. I’ve been told that. Um, but it’s, it’s always just, it’s just been my style, just bring force and just push through it because, you know, if, if you wait too long or you sit on your hands, are you waiting for the perfect opportunity or for the perfect person to come
Brandon Saiz: around? It’s not how it works. You know, the game of life, you got to kind of force your way in and, and get things done because no one’s going to come and do it for you.
Tyler Martin: Right. That’s business or anytime you’re trying to get better, no one’s coming to do it for you.
Brandon Saiz: Yeah, nobody’s going to give you a handout.
10:08The $23,000 workers’ comp audit nobody warned him about
Tyler Martin: I want to go through a few things because you’ve had these gritty moments, kind of like what are learning lessons? Because the audience is full of business owners, and they’ve run through various things like this too. So I’m sure they can identify. But for example, you had a workman’s comp bill that comes in, and it’s $23,000.
Tyler Martin: It’s relatively early in your adventure. Can you tell us about that a little bit? And then what was your takeaway from it?
Brandon Saiz: So the takeaway was it being my fault, trying to be accountable and being more self-aware. But what had happened was, and I’m sure most of the people watching this and I’m sure you know, your workman’s comp is based off of your payroll. So after that first year, we blew past the payroll or the amount that our payroll covered.
Brandon Saiz: We blew past it. So meaning we didn’t pay enough workman’s comp. So that following year, they do an audit. I don’t even know what an audit is. So much just gets thrown in your face, right? you’re just like, oh man, what is this? So yeah, anyways, they said we have an audit.
Brandon Saiz: They came by and the workman’s comp guy, whatever comes by and he’s like, oh yeah, so it’s going to be $23,000. I’m like, 23,000 for what? Or what do you mean? And that’s what it was. That’s when he educated. And then he told me before he left our office,
Brandon Saiz: he was like, hey, yeah, just a heads up. Most businesses don’t make it through this. And I’m like, oh, great, man. You know, that comment actually just pissed me off. So I’m like, well, wait and see then. Right. I mean, it’s like, hey, you don’t know who you’re talking to either. So that happened. And yeah, they chopped up the whole payment in like, I think it was like six months. They allowed us to do some kind of payments. But but yeah. And ultimately, it was again, me being young, naive and ignorant towards business.
Brandon Saiz: And that’s what I was saying again, is that I had to be very accountable because then now I have to sit down with the insurance multiple times a year and say, hey, this is where our payroll is at now. This is where our payroll should be by the end of the year.
Brandon Saiz: We need this cushion. And then ever since then, you know, we haven’t had to pay anything back, thankfully.
Tyler Martin: Yeah. It’s weird how workers’ comp works, especially when you’re a young company and you’re obviously going to be growing and probably in some cases doubling your labor. and especially when you’re doing trade. So the labor rate is really high that they use. It’s unfortunate that they don’t interact
Tyler Martin: with you more proactively because I have seen that a lot and say, hey, you’re supposed to, in the olden days, you used to fill out a form every month or quarter, but I don’t know if they still make you do that. And that was supposed to give you an idea
Tyler Martin: of where you stand. But I’ve seen a lot of companies fall into what you did, what happened to you, and it just puts you in a bad spot from a cashflow standpoint.
Brandon Saiz: You know, it doesn’t, it makes it hard because you’re anticipating and you have to kind of balance it out perfectly because you don’t want to pay too much either. Right. So you don’t want to pay too much, but you can’t pay too little, but you don’t know how
Brandon Saiz: your growth is going to be, especially with like, you know, COVID and all that stuff. You know, it was a hard time, but it was also a time where a lot of businesses and things were expanding rapidly in any market. So it was, it was having to play catch or you’re having to play catch up all the time
Brandon Saiz: at a very rapid pace. Right. And just, again, just anticipating.
13:24Losing the $250,000 property management contract
Tyler Martin: I also want to talk about you. You had a $250,000 contract in 2023, and I believe you lost it. Tell us that story. And then what was the learning lesson from that?
Brandon Saiz: Yeah. So that was a tough one. That was actually a property management. You know, property managements usually are pretty terrible to work for, just being honest. You know, they’re never very great. They’re not, they don’t want to pay. They want the cheapest fix and all that.
Brandon Saiz: Well, anyways, we actually got a really, really good property manager. They were really on top of stuff. They came and interviewed us to even take over their contracts. So what happened was they were very strict and they wanted things done a certain way.
Brandon Saiz: And we came up short on those expectations. And they ended up saying, hey, you guys aren’t doing our work anymore. and that sucked because because i’m still that was i think that was our second or third year the reason why that one sucked is because it was easy money we you don’t have to market you don’t
Brandon Saiz: have to brand you don’t got to pay attention to google youtube ads nothing they’re handing you they’re spoon feeding you work and that one sucked because we got so comfortable with just everything being handed to us that it was a it was a big blow when it first happened and it was
Brandon Saiz: a huge contract. And ultimately you always look back and say, okay, well, what could I have done better? And then you understand that you weren’t putting the right people on the right job. There was a better way to handle the scheduling and all of that. It got chaotic.
Brandon Saiz: Yeah. So that’s how we lost that one. And that one, uh, that one sucked pretty bad.
Tyler Martin: What was the learning lesson there? Like, what would you do differently now? Is it take business? Is it don’t take business that you don’t think is good business or?
Brandon Saiz: The learning lesson was, is that I need to be better as far as who I’m putting out there. you know what happened was is i wasn’t managing the schedule properly so we were just extremely chaotic and all over the place and just trying to fit them in whereas now i would go into it with a
Brandon Saiz: much better game plan and say this person this person are going to handle here and we’re going to we’re going to go from there rather than just popping in everybody randomly and it it being all over the place there wasn’t any structure to it and that’s where where we ultimately fell short
Tyler Martin: Yeah. Is that something that you think that adjustments that you’ve made, has that carried into your business today? Do you think you have a handle on that now?
Brandon Saiz: A much better handle. I think even with these guys and my day-to-day, I still carry this yellow notebook around, but I try to map everything out. I try to line meetings out accordingly, and I try to make sure that I explain myself thoroughly. Ultimately, business is about
Brandon Saiz: leadership and communication is huge too. Everyone needs to be on the same page and everyone needs to be on the same path. And that is an area that basically I came up short on then because I was still learning and you expect everyone to just know how to do things. And that’s not the way
Brandon Saiz: that life or business works. No one knows. So it was my responsibility to do that. And I have been doing it. We have meetings every month now and try to get together with these guys every week
Tyler Martin: or so now. Yeah. Because everything changes so rapidly, right? I mean, our days change rapidly.
16:43Signing a four-year CRM deal and paying $50,000 to exit
Brandon Saiz: Yeah. On the same note, you also at some point started to use a CRM and we don’t have to say the name. That’s not important. But you used a CRM. I think you signed a four-year contract and then it cost you $50,000 to get out of it. I think there’s a huge learning lesson in there
Brandon Saiz: for a lot of us. Tell us that story. I’d love to know the detail. Why did you think it wasn’t a Why did you not want to go to that commitment of working with the four years? What was it like to get out of it?
Brandon Saiz: That type of stuff.
Tyler Martin: Yeah, that was a tough one. So what happened was, yeah, we had our CRM here and we were looking. It’s a very popular one. I’m sure. Everyone talks about it and all that. And you’re like, okay, in business, you always want to pivot.
Tyler Martin: You want to pivot at the right time and you want to carry on with your momentum. so that was the whole goal and objective behind getting that new crm so we get the new crm ultimately it was not rolled out properly or the way that it should have been and it caused and
Tyler Martin: created a lot of confusion and especially on my end i was i was you know 70 bought into it and i wasn’t 100 bought into it and that already causes for failure for stuff like that you have to go all in right so that it was that mix of that and then we rolled it out to a few of these guys we
Tyler Martin: actually used it pretty often still we when we rolled it out we put half the team on it that way we could get used to it well anyways no one that we put on it liked it didn’t work for them and then even on our side it was just it just got really confusing and
Tyler Martin: everything gonna work for us so again not being all fully bought in and then we said you know what I’m going to pull the plug on it. I don’t like this anymore because it wasn’t working. And then that’s what happened is then they come back from like,
Tyler Martin: well, you signed a contract and then your contract to get out of it is you have to pay at least half. So that’s where the 50,000 came from is we had to, what’s it called? Like a certain, not a surcharge, but a prorated way to pay that prorated extra amount to cover half of the
Tyler Martin: contract. Wow. So we did that and that was a huge hit, huge hit. We had to eat that. We just finished paying that last year, last September-ish. So we had finally gotten out of that. We went back to our old CRM
Brandon Saiz: and have been working on that ever since. Wow. I know there’s a lot of CRMs out there and some are more difficult than others. Was it really that, it wasn’t that the CRM was bad is what I’m thinking is that you didn’t want to invest the time necessarily because of its complexity.
Brandon Saiz: And was it that you felt there was another CRM that was easier to use? Is that basically what
Tyler Martin: it came down to? Yeah. I mean, that’s a good, that is kind of basically exactly what it was. Yeah. I mean, we also didn’t have the time. This CRM is complex. And if you want to maximize it, you have to, you have to baby it and you have to build, I mean, you can almost self-build it
Tyler Martin: yourself to a degree, right? So that’s what happened. And we didn’t spend enough time going all in on it. Yeah. And again, we weren’t that big at the time. We only had, I don’t want to say around 10 people when we were really trying to do that.
Tyler Martin: So it was this huge, big expense that just, it wasn’t, we weren’t ready for it. It was premature. This thing’s a Ferrari, you know, and we got to, we weren’t ready for it.
Brandon Saiz: Yeah, and the sad thing is you were premature, but the thing is it’s hard when you’re a small growing business and then you take on this, like you said, Ferrari to run your business. you’re just not there yet and it just it’s unfortunate that that was even sold to you
Tyler Martin: because you just weren’t in the right spot for it we weren’t ready we weren’t ready for it yeah and and again you live and you learn that was the biggest takeaway that i could that’s the other takeaway i would take away from it is rolling these things out you have to just go all in
20:34Being the guy who goes through the wall, not around it
Brandon Saiz: and you have to plan thoroughly you know that’s that’s where i came up short how how have you worked around like i’ve only known you for a few minutes here but you know you are a type of guy that’s going to get stuff done, like get shit done. And you go through walls to get it done.
Brandon Saiz: Now, that’s a blessing when it comes to running a business and growing a business. It also could be a curse when it comes to the attention to detail and the double checking things. How do you moderate that? Do you have a sidekick that’s kind of helping you keep your sanity check
Tyler Martin: occasionally? Or how do you deal with that? Yeah, a little bit, right? But to really touch on your point, that is exactly what it’s been. And that’s been the story of my life. It has been 100 miles an hour, and I’m going to go through the wall and never around it.
Tyler Martin: And it’s created a lot of missed details and a lot of little mistakes. So yeah, we have some good people here in our office that really help kind of manage the ship, you could call it, because the office is where all the details are.
Tyler Martin: And then my side of it is just, again, 1,000 miles an hour. right and it has i mean really every story i’ve talked about even the failure ones was always me just just going you know it wasn’t i wasn’t really thinking or overthinking and maybe i should at
Tyler Martin: times but i don’t it was more so i’m just gonna go straight through this thing yeah little job than an ultima i don’t care just just put me in a car and let me lose you know workman’s comp whatever i’ll figure it out at the end of the year oh 23 000 whatever oh new crm because it’s
Tyler Martin: going to work. Nah, just throw it on. We’re going to figure it out. And we don’t. Yeah. Yeah. $250,000 contract. I don’t care. We’ll just figure it out. And then it’s, it’s what I do a lot is over commit and then try to figure things out later. And unfortunately some of those things
Brandon Saiz: don’t get figured out later. So yeah, it was what it is. I mean, your self, your, your self awareness and your accountability is off the charts. Like you’re, you’re very self-aware and you’re very accountable. It’s just funny because you, sometimes you don’t usually when you have
Brandon Saiz: people that kind of go through walls, they don’t often have that self-awareness in terms of knowing they’re going through walls. Someone has to slow them down. Have you ever heard of EOS? It’s called the Entrepreneurial Operating System. Does that ring a bell? I haven’t. No. Is that a book or
Brandon Saiz: program or something? It’s a program. There’s a book. A guy named Gino Wickman wrote a book called Traction. I think it’s something you might want to look into because you’re not unique in the the typical, you’re like the typical entrepreneur that’s really a visionary type where like they’re
Brandon Saiz: thinking 10 steps ahead of everybody else. And the problem is that’s a great quality, but the problem is a lot of those steps in between to get to the 10th step isn’t necessarily where your mind likes to go to. And EOS, they label you as a visionary and they label someone that’s doing
Brandon Saiz: the day-to-day work like an operator or an integrator that’s going to be looking at all those details. And so it just helps you if you’ve ever had trouble identifying yourself and your behaviors. It really gives you the okay to be a visionary, but you need someone. It’s not
Brandon Saiz: necessarily someone and you need a process that’s getting all those steps in between the visionary so that the business functions smoothly. It can grow, it can scale and get great people around them that are all accountable for their roles while you still can be a visionary. And it’s
Brandon Saiz: worth checking out. It may not be a today thing, but it may be worth it. I think that’s Traction’s book, right? Yeah. Geno Wickman, the book is Traction. He’s got like 10 books, but the main one is Traction. And then from that spun off this entrepreneurial operating system, EOS. And it’s good. It’s worth
Brandon Saiz: at least reading the book and then deciding. In fact, I like better than the book. If you’re like not a total like hardcore book reader. There’s a version he wrote called Get a Grip, Get a Grip. And Get a Grip walks you through an implementation of EOS, like a story,
Brandon Saiz: a fable, they call it. And it’s just interesting because you get to see, you know, you get to see the different personalities and how everybody works together and they’re accountable. Anyway,
Tyler Martin: I’m getting off on a sidetrack, but what about like building your team? How have you been able to, well, how big are you now? How many technicians do you have now?
Brandon Saiz: We have a, we’re 20 people.
Tyler Martin: Wow. That’s nice size.
Brandon Saiz: 15 trucks. Yeah.
Tyler Martin: So how do you manage, how have you built your team? What have you done to keep people happy, stay with you and continue to grow and add people?
25:02Hiring in bulk and reading people in the interview
Brandon Saiz: Yeah. And that’s a really good question. When I first started, I didn’t care who it was off the street. I said, are you looking for a job? Come on in. Now I’ve gotten a little bit more particular in these interview processes. I try to do at least two or three, you know, max.
Brandon Saiz: And I try to roll out one-on-ones, one-on-ones. has allowed me to understand who I’m dealing with. Not everyone wants to be an owner. Not everyone wants to be a manager. Some just want a job and to do their work and to take off and that’s it.
Brandon Saiz: So it was what’s helped me grow is really try to put and figure out clarity with everybody and who I’m dealing with and what they want and what motivates them. Some guys is a bonus and motivates them. Some guys more family time motivates them.
Brandon Saiz: that that’s probably been been our biggest thing and also being more thorough as far as who we’re actually bringing on yeah because we we’ve had some rough hires i’m sure everyone’s had some rough hires but we’ve had some brutal hires where you’re just like wow what was i thinking so that
Brandon Saiz: that’s been our that’s probably been the number one thing is is understanding and trying to learn
Tyler Martin: more about people on the front end rather than the back end yeah you brought up something great And I think it’s wonderful how you seem like you’re such a fast learner, is kind of managing people to the level of where they’re at. A lot of times, I think, I know I’m guilty of this, is we kind of manage, we think we’re
Tyler Martin: going to manage everybody the same. And people hear things. Yeah, they hear things differently. So you can’t do that.
Brandon Saiz: No, that’s absolutely right. And that’s something that I learned. Some people want to pat on the back. Some people will need you to motivate them in a different way. Some people need you to be more stern. Some people need you to be more relaxed.
Brandon Saiz: and you have to not be a chameleon in a bad way, but you have to understand and adapt to who you’re around and what you’re talking to. Because every single person is different and everyone’s motivations and motives are all different. So understanding who you’re dealing with
Brandon Saiz: will definitely set you apart. Yeah. My biggest thing too is trying to learn that those leadership qualities and a big John Maxwell person, I’ve tried to read his books and do them on audio because leadership is how high the business is going to get to.
Brandon Saiz: And that’s it. It doesn’t matter. There’s, of course, a few other details, but the leadership is what everything’s going to fall on. You can only go as high as the leadership. So I have hyper-studied that over the last few years. I don’t know if you know who Nick Saban is,
Brandon Saiz: but Nick Saban, I’ve been reading a bunch about him and following his books and all.
Tyler Martin: Wow, that’s good. Yeah, I mean, your people are your most important asset. It sounds trivial, but it’s true. And if you become a good leader, you can develop. That’s how you’re going to scale. If you have happy people and they’re staying with you and they’re happy, you’re going to
Tyler Martin: scale your business.
Brandon Saiz: Yeah. And you got to, that brings back to my last point too, about as far as understanding who you have, because you have to make people happy. Yeah. And the hard part is you’re not going to make everyone happy. Right. And the reality is, is you got to figure out who you’re going to make happy and you have
Brandon Saiz: to try to make everybody happy, but it’s not going to be for everyone. Not everyone’s going to just fit perfectly in that position or that role. You have to try to build people up as much as possible, but it’s not for everyone. And sometimes you got to learn when to let go.
Brandon Saiz: Because we’ve had to let go of a few people too, right?
Tyler Martin: That’s what I was going to ask you. So what do you do when you have a technician that comes in? They’re obviously very technically skilled, but they’re kind of the jerk of the group. Do you allow that person a free pass? Do they get to stay with your organization?
Tyler Martin: or do you end up finding a way to out them, get them out of the business?
Brandon Saiz: That’s an interesting question because it’s not black and white, the answer. It’s very gray. From being a small business, when you have all-star players, the reality of it is, is they do get away with a little bit more. It’s just the truth because you don’t have anybody else
Brandon Saiz: that can actually do what they’re doing. Now, with that being said, as we’ve grown and continue to grow, we’ve had to let people go because they were no longer the right fit. And the reality is, is sometimes you just, you got what you got. You know, you’re a, you’re an eight, 10, 12 person
Brandon Saiz: company. And he’s the only guy that knows how to do plumbing or HVAC to this level. It’s hard. And you have to try to correct them and guide them as far as what you’re trying to do. Yeah. They might get away with more at times. Now, with that being said, I’ve had this,
Brandon Saiz: this situation happen the last few years. Once we’re able to grow and pivot and bring on someone that was even better and more appropriate for where we were trying to get to, I had to let him go. So again, the answer to that question is gray because it’s a little bit of both.
Brandon Saiz: If you’re super small with five people, you’re going to get pushed around by everybody. The smaller your company, the more pushed around you’re going to get by everybody. You only have one guy that can do this. You only have one guy that can do that.
Brandon Saiz: You only have one guy that can do this or one girl that can do this. And it really binds your hands at times because you’re always trying to push people forward and get everybody lined out, but you only have one person that can do that.
Brandon Saiz: So recently, this last probably six months, I’ve had a goal that I’m going to start to hire a bunch of people, hire in bulk, do the best I can, right? But I’ll worry about trimming the fat later because it’s a pain in the ass to find the right people.
Brandon Saiz: And the superstars in the interviews are sometimes the worst ones. And the ones that come off a little awkward, a little weird, or not much experience, they’re the best ones. They show up, they’re ready to work. They want to learn, you know? and everybody’s different.
Tyler Martin: Yeah, yeah. Do you find now with 20 people, is it harder because there’s more personalities or are you finding you’re able to, most of those 20 people are rowing in the same direction?
Brandon Saiz: Yeah, I mean, most of them are rowing in the same direction, of course, but because I’ve had to learn so much about, I guess, the leadership or about myself, I’ve got a decent process down as far as when we hire, when to have his one-on-one
Brandon Saiz: or what kind of questions you even ask in his interview. And it’s been a little bit easier to lead that way because now I know who I have and what they’re wanting. You got a good idea, you know? But when I’m first starting out,
Brandon Saiz: I know my personality. My personalities show up, show up early, get it done. Don’t care. I don’t care if I get home at midnight. I’m going to get it done. Not everybody’s like that. So I would actually say the first five, six, seven people
Brandon Saiz: that we brought on actually drove me the most crazy because I’m like, let’s go. Let’s get it done. Why aren’t you here? Show up now. We got to work late. It doesn’t matter. And that was harder than now where I’ve had to understand the,
Brandon Saiz: I’ve had to understand that everybody’s different and my approach to them needs to be different because it’s important that I, I maximize them and get them to their highest level. But that’s only going to happen if I know who I’m kind of dealing with. Not everyone’s me,
Brandon Saiz: not everyone’s you, not everyone’s her, him, whatever. Everyone’s different. So being, being a leader and really trying to get somewhere, you have to understand who you’re dealing with.
Tyler Martin: Yeah. How do you, just switching gears here a little bit. So now that you’re up to 20, you’ve got 20 technicians, you’ve had a lot of growth. You’re really working on leadership. It sounds like you kind of have a handle on helping people grow and getting them to stay
Tyler Martin: with you. Where do finances play in this? And what I mean by that is like KPIs or metrics, or are there certain targets you’re trying to hit? Like, are you staying up at night trying to hit a gross profit of a certain number? Or where do numbers play into this for you at all,
32:21Why he won’t sell to the roll-up buying everyone out
Brandon Saiz: if at all. Yeah. Well, numbers is the game, right? I mean, you, if you don’t know your numbers, you ain’t going to make it. So yeah, I mean, I track everything. I track everything pretty thoroughly. I ask, I try to ask more questions than I have answers as a few Facebook groups
Brandon Saiz: that I’m in. And I would, I would just always try to ask questions, you know, what’s your marketing percentage if you’re trying to grow? And some will say between 10 and 15%. And then what’s your gross profit that you’re trying to hit? Well, 60, 65%. What’s your net? Depends on
Brandon Saiz: the time of year, of course, but you know, about 20% is where you want to be. So I do try to track everything as much as possible. I get reports every single week as far as technician reports and where we’re at for the month. So I know exactly what we’re spending on Google ads,
Brandon Saiz: Google LSA ads. I know what we’re spending on Yelp. I know what we spend on billboards. I know all of that stuff because it’s extremely important. If you don’t track this stuff, at least as best as you can, that is chaotic. If you don’t find the holes in the boat,
Tyler Martin: oh man, you’re going to drown quickly. Yeah, that’s good stuff. Sometimes when you take that data off the internet, people kind of embellish their numbers a little bit. When I hear 65% GP, that’s a pretty high GP. That’s hard for the vast majority of businesses to attain it.
Tyler Martin: So how do you kind of like in your own mind, filter that out so that it’s a real GP of what you’re really trying to hit or any of your numbers are real for your market, your geography,
Brandon Saiz: your conditions? How do I try to manage the gross profit?
Tyler Martin: Well, just how do you manage the numbers in general? Some of the stuff you can take off the internet, but it might be inflated or it might not fit for your geography. So how do you deal with that? Like how, how intimate do you get into your numbers where you’re going, Hey, for my
Brandon Saiz: geography, we should be 45% GP or something like that. Yeah. Well, no, I, you know, I just try to stay as based as possible because what you just said, there’s been numbers, even when I first started and you hear these guys, Oh, I’m already at 4 million profit and I’m already at 5 million
Brandon Saiz: profit. You got to know where you’re at. So yes, I’m in Albuquerque. It’s a middle market and you got to, I guess even to answer your question again, is you got to kind of play with the numbers yourself. There’s been times where I spend more in marketing and see kind of how it
Brandon Saiz: responds and how it reacts. So, okay, that’s, yeah, I stay very based. So I find out what these guys are doing and then I try to flow with that. So they say 10%. Okay, well then let me, let me throw 8% in it, see how busy we are, see what time of year it is and see how that goes.
Brandon Saiz: and then let me throw 12 and 13% this month to see how it flows again. So that’s how I do it. I try to mess with it to see what’s what. And then you have to track everything. I track what Yelp gets, how many Yelp calls I get a month, a week.
Brandon Saiz: I track weekly calls. I track the Google calls. And then you just kind of mess with it. Because to answer, just like what you said, people are extreme and you’re like, okay, anyways, maybe, Maybe because you never know, but it’s extreme. And that’s how I’ve had to play with it.
Brandon Saiz: It was just every single metric, mess with it. Marketing is the easiest example to give because you can go 10, 12, 14, 15%. You can go Billboard, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook. You can track your cost per clicks. You can track all of that.
Tyler Martin: Yeah, yeah, good stuff.
Brandon Saiz: And again, I mean, you just gotta, you gotta think about what you’re wanting because some guys will say, oh, I spend 10 grand in Facebook ads and Facebook ads have never really done anything for me. I’ve always seen them as just a branding place. So I put money to it,
Brandon Saiz: but I don’t anticipate it on giving anything back to me.
Tyler Martin: Right. That makes a lot of sense. Okay. Last question before I wrap up here, what do you want your legacy to be like? Where are you guys headed? Like, are you the next $10 million a year business? And then you sell to private equity.
Tyler Martin: Do you have any type, what, what do you, how do you see your legacy?
Brandon Saiz: Yeah, no, it’s a really good question. And there’s private equity thing is blown up over the last few years. Right. I’ve always said that I would never sell. what I would say now is I’m not opposed to selling, but I don’t want to sell because it’s
Brandon Saiz: hard or because it’s difficult or because I’m on my way out or I can’t figure it out. I want to sell because I built the biggest, best possible brand I could do. And these guys want it because I get phone calls all the time. There’s a company here now that’s buying everybody out
Brandon Saiz: and I don’t want it. I don’t want it. So, you know, I want to be one of the biggest and best companies and then I’ll worry about selling out then if I, if I ever do, you know, the hard part that I’ve struggled with is like,
Brandon Saiz: you know what? This is a very grassroots built business. This wasn’t handed to me. I didn’t get money for it. I made this happen when I was starting out. And it’s hard for me to just give that away to some big equity group.
Brandon Saiz: So we’ll see, right? You know, and I do want to be one of the biggest businesses here. Yeah. And my goal is to create the best leaders. I want to make the people around me better. I want them to see me and see how I do things
Brandon Saiz: and be inspired for themselves to keep pushing and to keep becoming the best version of themselves as well. I want to be a true leader in the industry, in my state, in my home, of the world maybe someday, right? I just want to be a leader.
Tyler Martin: Yeah. It’s a big decision. I sold a couple businesses, but one in particular. And it’s like selling your baby. It’s 10 years. Yeah. It’s 10 years I built this business. And I’ll never forget, we got bought by a big company. and I’m sitting in this meeting with the new CEO
Tyler Martin: and a couple other people. And I got pretty emotional because they were changing the business around and it was things that I felt the business worked really well. And we had built it on the back of some of the operational things we did.
Tyler Martin: And all of a sudden they were just like saying they’re gone. And it was weird. It does take, I mean, you just got to look in your bank account and then that offsets some of it, but not all of it. It’s still emotional.
Tyler Martin: It’s hard to let go. So it’s a good you realize that.
Brandon Saiz: Yeah. And we’re still young. We did a little over 3 million last year, 3 million some. Nice. We’re still growing. There’s still so much to figure out. I’m taking it one day at a time. I’m extremely persistent and I’ll figure out a way to get to that 10 million possible or something
Brandon Saiz: like that. But I’ll worry about that as it comes. And I’m not looking to force any decisions right now or bounce and make a million dollars and just get out of it. I enjoy working. I enjoy what I’m doing. And I look forward to making some noise in this industry.
Tyler Martin: That’s so cool, man. Well, hey, Brandon, I love talking with you. Other than us having a little bit of an internet connection here and there, we had an awesome conversation. Your website, you’ve got an Instagram. I’ll put it in the show notes. Your LinkedIn, of course.
Tyler Martin: Your business website is ncbmechanical.com. If people wanted to reach out to you, is there anywhere in particular that’s the best place to interact with you?
Brandon Saiz: My Instagram, it’s Brandon Seiss with three Zs underscore NCB.
Tyler Martin: Yeah, and the Brandon is underscore, your last name with three Zs, underscore NCB. So there’s actually two underscores.
Brandon Saiz: Yeah, you need your research because you know better than I do.
Tyler Martin: Occasionally, man. Occasionally.
Brandon Saiz: Anyway, thanks so much for being on the show. I love hearing your story. And I promise you, I’m going to pick on you next year. I’m going to track you down. I want to hear your update next year because I can tell with your leadership skills and
Brandon Saiz: the Maxwell learning that you have nowhere but up to go.
Tyler Martin: No, I appreciate it. Like I said, I’m extremely focused. And I hope the people that do watch this, they see, you see one day that I’m trying to make a name for myself and for the people around me as well. Awesome. Thanks, man. Take care.
Tyler Martin: Yes, sir. Thank you.
Brandon Saiz: This episode with Brandon was just raw and real. Gritty, raw, real is what I heard throughout the whole episode. The chaos, the costly mistakes, the pressure to figure things out as you go. But what stands out about Brandon is simple. He stayed the course, that consistency, stayed with it.
Brandon Saiz: And if there’s one takeaway, here it is. You don’t need perfect systems or perfect timing, but you do need persistence, accountability, and the willingness to learn fast. If you’re a business owner trying to turn growth into real profit, better cash flow, and clearer decision-making,
Brandon Saiz: You can book a no-pressure intro call at cfointrocall.com. That’s cfointrocall.com, or check out my website, cfomadeeasy.com. And as always, I can’t thank you enough for listening, and I’ll catch you on the next episode.
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Tyler Martin works with owners on the numbers behind these stories: profitandgrit.com or Book a free intro call.
